Comments on: Chuck Turner trashes the First Amendment http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-first-amendment/ By Dan Kennedy • The press, politics, technology, culture and other passions Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:09:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: NewsHound http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-first-amendment/comment-page-1/#comment-42930 NewsHound Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:13:00 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-the-first-amendment/#comment-42930 Chuck Turner as we all know and respect our judicial system is fully innocent until proven guilty.<br/>Insomuch as the First Amendment, we are all free to bark all we want up his tree. As a celebrity his actions and appearance is wide open to scrutiny, offensive and defensive. All he can do is bark back but doubt, based on his recent pictures, he can bite. Chuck Turner as we all know and respect our judicial system is fully innocent until proven guilty.
Insomuch as the First Amendment, we are all free to bark all we want up his tree. As a celebrity his actions and appearance is wide open to scrutiny, offensive and defensive. All he can do is bark back but doubt, based on his recent pictures, he can bite.

]]> By: Rob http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-first-amendment/comment-page-1/#comment-42927 Rob Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:18:00 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-the-first-amendment/#comment-42927 Chuck Turner was also quick to hide behind the First Amendment after his well-known production of unsubstantiated and pornographic images claiming to be American military war crimes in Iraq. There, Turner confused his unchallenged right to speak freely and show whatever photos he wanted with his moral responsibility as a public official and even citizen to substantiate such serious allegations before going public with them. Chuck Turner was also quick to hide behind the First Amendment after his well-known production of unsubstantiated and pornographic images claiming to be American military war crimes in Iraq. There, Turner confused his unchallenged right to speak freely and show whatever photos he wanted with his moral responsibility as a public official and even citizen to substantiate such serious allegations before going public with them.

]]> By: Dan Kennedy http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-first-amendment/comment-page-1/#comment-42925 Dan Kennedy Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:12:00 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-the-first-amendment/#comment-42925 James: I know by Turner's own words that he has no regard for the First Amendment. I have no interest in reading his mind in order to determine whether he means what he says. I also have no reason to believe that he <i>doesn't</i> mean what he says.<br/><br/>I prefer to take him seriously, which I think is more respectful than the treatment you're giving him. James: I know by Turner’s own words that he has no regard for the First Amendment. I have no interest in reading his mind in order to determine whether he means what he says. I also have no reason to believe that he doesn’t mean what he says.

I prefer to take him seriously, which I think is more respectful than the treatment you’re giving him.

]]> By: Rob http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-first-amendment/comment-page-1/#comment-42924 Rob Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:11:00 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-the-first-amendment/#comment-42924 Turner's constant confusion in extending the presumption of innocence in a criminal legal matter to all discussion and debate on his alleged crime has gotten ridiculous and strayed from the meaning of the term itself. It is a legal term tied into burden of proof and the government's requirement to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. It has nothing to do with how the City Council should judge its own members or how the media should write about alleged crimes. Everyone understands that Turner cannot be punished by the legal system until the government proves its case in his day in court, but it does not entitle Turner to an expectation of everyone pretending he does not have a cloud over his head or questioning his effectiveness as a public servant while under indictment. He is stretching the term far beyond what it is supposed to do to grandstand to his small base of diehards and try and taint any guilty verdict that may eventually come down from a jury. Turner’s constant confusion in extending the presumption of innocence in a criminal legal matter to all discussion and debate on his alleged crime has gotten ridiculous and strayed from the meaning of the term itself. It is a legal term tied into burden of proof and the government’s requirement to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. It has nothing to do with how the City Council should judge its own members or how the media should write about alleged crimes. Everyone understands that Turner cannot be punished by the legal system until the government proves its case in his day in court, but it does not entitle Turner to an expectation of everyone pretending he does not have a cloud over his head or questioning his effectiveness as a public servant while under indictment. He is stretching the term far beyond what it is supposed to do to grandstand to his small base of diehards and try and taint any guilty verdict that may eventually come down from a jury.

]]> By: James http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-first-amendment/comment-page-1/#comment-42923 James Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:10:00 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-the-first-amendment/#comment-42923 I am kind of surprised that you are taking this angle on the story, Dan. Turner is known for going overboard rhetorically, but you know that he is not really anti-civil rights or against the 1st amendment. <br/><br/>I think the issue here is when cable news and other even mainstream media seem to always suggest that anyone arrested by police is guilty - if not of the crime, then at least of something. Even the small town newspapers are quick to write about an arrest, but not nearly as quick or aggressive in writing about an acquittal. Of course, they are in the business of selling newspapers, but the premise that the media generally focuses on guilt before innocence I think is correct. I am kind of surprised that you are taking this angle on the story, Dan. Turner is known for going overboard rhetorically, but you know that he is not really anti-civil rights or against the 1st amendment.

I think the issue here is when cable news and other even mainstream media seem to always suggest that anyone arrested by police is guilty – if not of the crime, then at least of something. Even the small town newspapers are quick to write about an arrest, but not nearly as quick or aggressive in writing about an acquittal. Of course, they are in the business of selling newspapers, but the premise that the media generally focuses on guilt before innocence I think is correct.

]]> By: Ani http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-first-amendment/comment-page-1/#comment-42917 Ani Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:28:00 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-the-first-amendment/#comment-42917 If the media is within their legal rights under the First Amendment to publish what they have about Turner, that still leaves the question of whether they should. I'm assuming that's what Turner was getting at by referring to other sources on what he labels the presumption of innocence.<br/><br/>It does sound from Walker's interview as if the prosecution's story is not coincident with Wilburn's, and if that's so, I would expect the media to pursue that, not merely be content with giving voice to the prosecution's version. <br/><br/>The media have found that in at least some cases (the Duke lacrosse case, the run-up to the invasion of Iraq come to mind) that there may be more than one version of the story, and the media's reputation suffers when they look as if they don't have a mind of their own.<br/><br/>So while I'm not terribly sympathetic to Turner's desire for attempts at legislative muzzling of the media, I would love to see more independent coverage of cases like Turner's. If the media is within their legal rights under the First Amendment to publish what they have about Turner, that still leaves the question of whether they should. I’m assuming that’s what Turner was getting at by referring to other sources on what he labels the presumption of innocence.

It does sound from Walker’s interview as if the prosecution’s story is not coincident with Wilburn’s, and if that’s so, I would expect the media to pursue that, not merely be content with giving voice to the prosecution’s version.

The media have found that in at least some cases (the Duke lacrosse case, the run-up to the invasion of Iraq come to mind) that there may be more than one version of the story, and the media’s reputation suffers when they look as if they don’t have a mind of their own.

So while I’m not terribly sympathetic to Turner’s desire for attempts at legislative muzzling of the media, I would love to see more independent coverage of cases like Turner’s.

]]> By: Boston Venerable Bede http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-first-amendment/comment-page-1/#comment-42911 Boston Venerable Bede Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:41:00 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/2008/12/15/chuck-turner-trashes-the-first-amendment/#comment-42911 Chuck Turner...America's City Councilor! Chuck Turner…America’s City Councilor!

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