Comments on: The so-called free market for food http://www.dankennedy.net/2009/09/13/the-so-called-free-market-for-food/ By Dan Kennedy • The press, politics, technology, culture and other passions Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:09:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ben http://www.dankennedy.net/2009/09/13/the-so-called-free-market-for-food/comment-page-1/#comment-49606 Ben Tue, 15 Sep 2009 02:37:03 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/?p=6163#comment-49606 It’s not nirvana, but damn, look around you! The inner city markets I shop at have an incredible array of produce, whole grains, nuts, etc. Not to mention the farmers markets. Watch the immigrants, they figure out how to eat healthy food on a budget. The problem is largely with America’s food culture today (just ask Michael Pollan). Believe me, even without cheap corn syrup, etc, Americans will still find ways to kill themselves with food. Food scientists will cook up new ways to kill us and they will be obligingly provided at bargain basement prices (the free market is a double-edged sword!). It's interesting how we can both oppose agricultural subsidies and yet so completely talk past each other. (I wasn’t kidding about having beans and kale for school lunch – very poor people have lived very healthy lives eating these cheap humble foods) It’s not nirvana, but damn, look around you! The inner city markets I shop at have an incredible array of produce, whole grains, nuts, etc. Not to mention the farmers markets. Watch the immigrants, they figure out how to eat healthy food on a budget. The problem is largely with America’s food culture today (just ask Michael Pollan). Believe me, even without cheap corn syrup, etc, Americans will still find ways to kill themselves with food. Food scientists will cook up new ways to kill us and they will be obligingly provided at bargain basement prices (the free market is a double-edged sword!).

It’s interesting how we can both oppose agricultural subsidies and yet so completely talk past each other.

(I wasn’t kidding about having beans and kale for school lunch – very poor people have lived very healthy lives eating these cheap humble foods)

]]> By: Dan Kennedy http://www.dankennedy.net/2009/09/13/the-so-called-free-market-for-food/comment-page-1/#comment-49601 Dan Kennedy Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:36:12 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/?p=6163#comment-49601 How can you fail to understand that the market has been completely distorted by perverse government incentives? You have a very zeroes-and-ones view of the world. If the food doesn't all come from Agriculture Factory No. 1, then we must be living in free-market nirvana. People want to save money. People <em>need</em> to save money. And the most efficient way they can do that is to buy corn-laden crap that is cheap only because the government makes it so. Real food wouldn't be more expensive than industrial food if the latter weren't subsidized by the government, and if we factored in the cost of food-related disease. How can you fail to understand that the market has been completely distorted by perverse government incentives? You have a very zeroes-and-ones view of the world. If the food doesn’t all come from Agriculture Factory No. 1, then we must be living in free-market nirvana. People want to save money. People need to save money. And the most efficient way they can do that is to buy corn-laden crap that is cheap only because the government makes it so.

Real food wouldn’t be more expensive than industrial food if the latter weren’t subsidized by the government, and if we factored in the cost of food-related disease.

]]> By: Ben http://www.dankennedy.net/2009/09/13/the-so-called-free-market-for-food/comment-page-1/#comment-49600 Ben Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:24:55 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/?p=6163#comment-49600 Dan, if there is something that accounts for the choice available in US supermarkets vs. Soviet-run stores other than markets, I have yet to hear it. I’m not trying to be fresh here- I just don’t see any other possible explanation. Dan, if there is something that accounts for the choice available in US supermarkets vs. Soviet-run stores other than markets, I have yet to hear it. I’m not trying to be fresh here- I just don’t see any other possible explanation.

]]> By: Dan Kennedy http://www.dankennedy.net/2009/09/13/the-so-called-free-market-for-food/comment-page-1/#comment-49599 Dan Kennedy Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:24:01 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/?p=6163#comment-49599 <em>[F]ood is produced and distributed by a <strong>very dynamic free market</strong> that offers many choices to the consumer.... [C]onsumers prefer the cheaper <strong>government subsidized</strong> product.</em> Wow. By the way, there is an alternative to government subsidies for Big Agribusiness and an entirely free market. Government could interview on the side of the public instead of the corporations. [F]ood is produced and distributed by a very dynamic free market that offers many choices to the consumer…. [C]onsumers prefer the cheaper government subsidized product.

Wow.

By the way, there is an alternative to government subsidies for Big Agribusiness and an entirely free market. Government could interview on the side of the public instead of the corporations.

]]> By: Ben http://www.dankennedy.net/2009/09/13/the-so-called-free-market-for-food/comment-page-1/#comment-49597 Ben Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:00:23 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/?p=6163#comment-49597 Yes Dan, the food system in this country is heavily distorted by the government. You’re not making a point that I (or probably Jacoby) would disagree with. But I don’t think that changes the fact that food is produced and distributed by a very dynamic free market that offers many choices to the consumer. If it’s hard for you to find grass-fed beef, it’s only because consumers prefer the cheaper government subsidized product. But I’m certainly with you on abolishing agricultural subsidies – for the reasons you cite and more. Less government manipulation of the market would be better for the consumer and society, a fact that eludes Obama as he attempts to introduce more “competition” and “consumer choice” into our health care system. Oh, and as a Luso-American, I’ve long advocated replacing the school lunch program with giant cauldrons of kale and bean soup. Pollan would sooo dig that. Yes Dan, the food system in this country is heavily distorted by the government. You’re not making a point that I (or probably Jacoby) would disagree with. But I don’t think that changes the fact that food is produced and distributed by a very dynamic free market that offers many choices to the consumer. If it’s hard for you to find grass-fed beef, it’s only because consumers prefer the cheaper government subsidized product.

But I’m certainly with you on abolishing agricultural subsidies – for the reasons you cite and more. Less government manipulation of the market would be better for the consumer and society, a fact that eludes Obama as he attempts to introduce more “competition” and “consumer choice” into our health care system.

Oh, and as a Luso-American, I’ve long advocated replacing the school lunch program with giant cauldrons of kale and bean soup. Pollan would sooo dig that.

]]> By: Steve Stein http://www.dankennedy.net/2009/09/13/the-so-called-free-market-for-food/comment-page-1/#comment-49596 Steve Stein Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:00:47 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/?p=6163#comment-49596 Sounds like more fallout from the prominence of the Iowa caucuses. Sounds like more fallout from the prominence of the Iowa caucuses.

]]> By: Dan Kennedy http://www.dankennedy.net/2009/09/13/the-so-called-free-market-for-food/comment-page-1/#comment-49594 Dan Kennedy Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:50:06 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/?p=6163#comment-49594 Ben: Again, read "The Carnivore's Dilemma." When you throw money at something, you get more of it — in this case, absurd quantities of corn. The market is self-regulating only to the extent that agribusiness has geared its entire reason for being around corn, because that's what the government pays them to grow. Ben: Again, read “The Carnivore’s Dilemma.” When you throw money at something, you get more of it — in this case, absurd quantities of corn. The market is self-regulating only to the extent that agribusiness has geared its entire reason for being around corn, because that’s what the government pays them to grow.

]]> By: Ben http://www.dankennedy.net/2009/09/13/the-so-called-free-market-for-food/comment-page-1/#comment-49592 Ben Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:33:12 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/?p=6163#comment-49592 The production of major agricultural commodities is heavily subsidized. But in all other respects, US food production and distribution is a self-regulating market. I think this was Jacoby’s point. Government is very good at subsidizing and taxing commodities but very poor at the logistics of actually delivering food to consumers (remember the USSR?). Jacoby is quite right to mention that Ted Kennedy understood this – the Senator was behind the deregulation of the airline and trucking industries. The production of major agricultural commodities is heavily subsidized. But in all other respects, US food production and distribution is a self-regulating market. I think this was Jacoby’s point. Government is very good at subsidizing and taxing commodities but very poor at the logistics of actually delivering food to consumers (remember the USSR?).

Jacoby is quite right to mention that Ted Kennedy understood this – the Senator was behind the deregulation of the airline and trucking industries.

]]> By: Dan Kennedy http://www.dankennedy.net/2009/09/13/the-so-called-free-market-for-food/comment-page-1/#comment-49585 Dan Kennedy Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:40:08 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/?p=6163#comment-49585 Steve: Oh, my God, yes. I strongly urge you to read "The Omnivore's Dilemma." Cattle are unable to digest anything but grass. They are fattened up on corn basically to the brink of death. Here's <a href="http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/feed/" rel="nofollow">a good, short explanation</a> from Sustainable Table. I don't know the organization, but the I recognize what they've written as valid. Steve: Oh, my God, yes. I strongly urge you to read “The Omnivore’s Dilemma.” Cattle are unable to digest anything but grass. They are fattened up on corn basically to the brink of death.

Here’s a good, short explanation from Sustainable Table. I don’t know the organization, but the I recognize what they’ve written as valid.

]]> By: Steve Stein http://www.dankennedy.net/2009/09/13/the-so-called-free-market-for-food/comment-page-1/#comment-49584 Steve Stein Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:32:27 +0000 http://www.dankennedy.net/?p=6163#comment-49584 Corn is toxic to cattle? Corn is toxic to cattle?

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